'SNS-HDR Lite' and PWP

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cliff
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Re: 'SNS-HDR Lite' and PWP

Post by cliff »

...After/Before comparison image link: http://www.ncplus.net/~birchbay/11/IMAG ... _11_96.htm
(Cliff... another cloud image using only PWP! :-)
That sky is even more amazing. It's beautiful. You obviously adjusted the tonal range to use all the values from black to white, but you must have done a lot more than that. I know it's offtopic for this thread, but if you have the time and inclination could you explain how you did it?

Thanks,
Cliff
Cliff Fiess Photography
http://www.cfphoto.com
den
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What is the make/model of your primary camera?: Canon EOS-350D/Fuji X100T
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Re: 'SNS-HDR Lite' and PWP

Post by den »

Cliff... sent you an email. A message board venue is really difficult to convey nuances and consequences of alternate and final editing choices that may really only be applicable to a specific image because of its content... and then there is one's personal preferences to take into account as well...

I am not trying to keep anything secretive here... just illustrate by example PWP's transforms and tools possibilities...

...then too... not every image I encounter turns out as well as this one!!!! :-)
tonygamble
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Re: 'SNS-HDR Lite' and PWP

Post by tonygamble »

Den,

Are the HDR Lite shots you are showing taken from a series of RAWs or one RAW processed with different exposures?

Tony
den
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Re: 'SNS-HDR Lite' and PWP

Post by den »

Are the HDR Lite shots you are showing taken from a series of RAWs or one RAW processed with different exposures?
Short answer: one RAW conversion tiff image adjusted for simulated RGB multiple exposures is my preference.

Long answer [also perhaps a partial response to Cliff's request, see (1)-->(4) below], i.e.,

Thoughts on a PWP -- SNS-HDR Lite workflow:
Because spontaneous nature/landscape images tend to have handheld camera and/or subject movements, I prefer to use a single RAW conversion image file [16-bit, 48-bit color tiff] where:

(1) the initial Raw File Settings are: gamma 2.20; contrast Medium Expansion; profile None; camera WB; color sRGB; and interpolation AHD;

(2) the Raw file is converted in the Raw Dialog with essentially no HSV/HSL edits other than Gray tab exposure shift to the right with the Histogram set to high resolution to avoid highlight clipping remembering that this is a HSV-V histogram so shift to only 98% rather than 100%. Leave the contrast and gamma settings "as is". I will sometimes do a USM Local Contrast Enhancement sharpening with settings: Amount 15 to 20; Radius 40; and Threshold 0. Click OK, then...

(3) ...use a RGB BrightnessCurve with a highlight protection Mask and High Histogram Resolution to set the white, black points, and shadow/midtone contrasts/brightnesses on the resulting(2) image. [note: this step ensures that the maximum amount of image data is retained and that no R, G, or B channel clipping occurs]

(4) The resulting(3) image is the base image from which two other images are created: one with a RGB BrightnesCurve gamma curve = [0,0], [22,50], [100,100] applied and one with a RGB BrightnessCurve gamma curve = [0,0], [50,22], [100,100] applied. [note: the suggested curves effectively double 2.20 gamma expands and linearizes the base image]

(5) Take the three image icons of (4): base; base+gamma; and base-gamma; and drop them on the SNS-HDR Lite application icon where the icon Target Properties are: "C:\Program Files\SNS-HDR Lite\SNS-HDR.exe" -da -dd -srgb -default -tiff16 ...[note: the program's alignment and de-ghosting functions are disabled to prevent 1:1 registration errors that can sometimes occur when using multiple versions of the same image]

(6) The resulting(5) image choices:
....(a) Composite-Blend with the base image to a preference Amount perhaps limited to the mid-tones by a tone range Mask;
....(b) Extract the HSV-V channel of the resulting(5) image and Combine it with the Extract-ed base image's HSV-H and HSV-S channels;
....(c) apply a preference Amount of Hi-Impact sRGB ColorCorrection or ElieD's Velvia ColorCorrection to the resulting(5) image [ref: http://www.dl-c.com/discus/messages/2/11025.html];
....(d) if the resulting(5) image has too much noise due to SNS-HDR Lite's micro-contrast processing in large low contrast image areas, try reducing it with the BilateralSharpen transform with a preference Amount; BlurRadius = 5; BlurThreshold = 5; SharpenFactor = 20; and SharpenThreshold = 1; and an image area Mask; or
....(e) leave "as is".

(7) perform a 'crop for composition'.

(8) perform preference final tone/color adjustments [perhaps Color Balance of black point, mid-tones (add a warming or cooling color cast), and white point.].

(9) perform preference 'Creative' Sharpening.
MikeG
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Re: 'SNS-HDR Lite' and PWP

Post by MikeG »

Just for information I've had good results (by my standards!) taking bracketed exposures, hand held. I've processed the RAW to TIFF (usually, I must confess, in Silkypix) and then dropped generally two of the TIFFs onto the SNS-HDR Lite icon from within PWP.
SNS-HDR does an impressive job in aligning the images AND does cope with some movement. For example, the image I posted of the car through the front window of a house near here was from two hand held TIFFs and one of the men in the image had moved noticeably between the exposures.
Mike.
den
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Re: 'SNS-HDR Lite'; 'DCRAW'; and PWP

Post by den »

In another thread, 'mjdl' posted:
...There's always Guillermo Luijk's in depth tutorial for DCRAW at http://www.guillermoluijk.com/tutorial/ ... dex_en.htm which goes into depth on DCRAW's raw image process techniques and options. PWP50 seems to expose some of the options discussed there, so it's useful for background....
Thank you 'mjdl'. GL's tutorial is very instructive.

If you have downloaded and installed SNS-HDR Lite v1.3.12 [the latest Lite version as of 04-04-2011], you have also installed in your Windows OS, 'dcraw v9.07' which appears to be its latest version... ['dcraw.exe' is located in the 'C:\Program Files\SNS-HDR Lite' folder]. If you right click on 'dcraw.exe', select 'create a short cut', you can place a 'dcraw' application link on your dest top.

Right click on the desk top 'dcraw' application link, select Properties, then type the desired 'dcraw' options into the Target box and Apply. For example, GL's suggested 'dcraw' options are: " -v -w -H 1 -o 0 -q 3 -4 -T "... so the whole Target box might read as: C:\Program Files\SNS-HDR Lite\dcraw.exe -v -w -H 1 -o 0 -q 3 -4 -T ......be sure to have clicked the Apply and then close the Properties dialog.

A complete 'dcraw v9.07' option listing is here: http://www.ncplus.net/~birchbay/tutoria ... ptions.jpg

Now you can click-hold-drag a RAW file image icon onto the desktop 'dcraw' application icon and release. It will then execute and create a *.tiff in the folder location of the RAW file... ...just as is done with image file icons dragged to the SNS-HDR Lite desktop application icon.

For example...
(1) GL's dcraw options creates a linear RAW file to tiff conversion:
IMG_0271_dcraw.jpg
(2) Using PWP's RGB Brightness Curve transform: apply a Gamma2.2 expansion; set black and white points; and create virtual -2ev and +2ev exposures:
IMG_0271_dcraw-pwp-2ev_0+2ev.jpg
(3) Drag the three image version icons and drop them on the SNS-HDR Lite desk top application icon with a '-default' option followed with minor preference HSV-V,S changes with PWP's ColorCurves tranform:
IMG_0271_dcraw-pwp-HDR(3)Litev1312-default-1.jpg
MikeG
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Re: 'SNS-HDR Lite' and PWP

Post by MikeG »

My thanks also to 'mjdl'. I've printed out G. Luijk's tutorial and was interested to read about the magenta cast issue in a couple of places.
Thanks, Den, for the method of using DCRaw to produce linear output as a means of maximising the potential of the SNS program.
I enjoyed getting down to the nuts and bolts and have learned a little bit more, however I suspect that I'll not be going this route unless all else has failed.
I'm a fan of SNS-Lite for alignment and HDR blending of two different exposures. One in which the highlights have been sacrificed to get shadow detail and the other in which shadow detail has been sacrificed to preserve highlights. The advantages of this approach are obvious.

I'm dubious that any advantage achievable from the technique of making +2EV and -2EV versions of the same RAW data.over squeezing the best from a single 48bit TIFF can be other that very marginal. My eyesight is not what it was and may no longer be up to appreciating the subtleties of this approach.

Or am I missing something?
den
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Re: 'SNS-HDR Lite' and PWP

Post by den »

Mike...

In G. Luijk's tutorial, there is a section on "Exposure Correction Using Curves" which he shows how to easily do with linear RAW data [before a gamma is applied] and just used the simulated exposures as an experiment in SNS-HDR Lite. It did provide a viable result.

Whether better or worse than other approaches is subject to whether a scene's dynamic range can be recorded in a single capture, image content, shooting conditions, camera settings, etc., and preferences...

Interesting enough, generating to a greater or lesser degree: under, base, and over toned image versions [exposures??] from a single image [linear raw or gamma applied tiff] to get the 'best' is what we perhaps subconsciously do inspite of ourselves either manually or with software...

Look how JS describes in his white paper: Multi-Zone Adjustment as to "what goes on under the hood"...
...The 3-Zone Adjustment transformation uses masks to isolate three tonal zones in an input image:
shadows, midtones, and highlights. Masks for each zone are created automatically based on zone
markers you adjust to set the brightness thresholds between zones and by additional mask settings
for each zone. Once zone masks are established, each zone’s contrast, brightness and saturation can
then be adjusted independently. Finally, the three adjusted images and the original input image are
all blended together to create a composite result with selected contributions from each one as illustrated
below:...
tonygamble
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Re: 'SNS-HDR Lite' and PWP

Post by tonygamble »

I've just tried this utility with some handheld bracket shots from my GH2.

I am amazed at how sharp they are.

Is the software applying sharpening?

OH, and by the way if Den is around. I sent you a PM this morning asking if you'd manage to get the GUI to work on the Lite version.

From what I have seen so far I cannot see any reason to do any more with the shots coming from the base software - but I will re-read this thread as I am sure more can be achieved with a bit of time and expertise.

Tony
den
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Re: 'SNS-HDR Lite' and PWP

Post by den »

Sabastian Nebitz has been busy this week in posting some updates to SNS-HDR Lite [currently v1.4.6.1] that are worthy of note as there is: (1) a GUI available, (2) an added ability to open an image in an external editor, and (3) updated to 'dcraw v9.12'...

Edit1: SNS-HDR_Lite v1.4.6.1 download link: http://www.sns-hdr.pl/files/SNS-HDR_Lite.exe

The GUI zip file may be download from here: http://www.sns-hdr.com/files/SNS-HDR_Lite_GUI.zip

To use it:
(1) Extract 'SNS-HDR_Lite_GUI.exe' to a folder and create a desktop application link.
(2) Initially open the GUI using the application link, then: (a) browse/select the external editor '*.exe' file and (b) browse/select the 'SNS-HDR_Lite.exe' file.
(3) Now images, presets, and options can be selected.
(4) Clicking Process executes the program, placing a 'processed' image or image set in the Select image(s) folder as well as opening the external editor with the 'processed' image in the editor's work space.
Image
---
Image

There were also questions regarding the advantages of creating virtual exposures or using in-camera multiple exposures. Creating virtual exposures from a single RAW file is discussed/illustrated here: http://www.ncplus.net/~birchbay/SNS-HDR ... /index.htm

OT: If there is an interest, I can illustrate/describe a way where one can use SNS-HDR's 'dcraw.exe', PWP, and the Vista desktop as a 'dcraw' GUI/analyzer... 'dcraw' is rather elequent in its simplicty...
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