Drawing Lines

[Marpel]

Latest version.

Blank document and use the Lines, Arrows and Text tool.

Only settings changes made are color and "Snap To".

Shift + Click to start line and click a distance away, near but not exactly horizontal.
- Snap to does not make the line horizontal. Doesn't work for verticals either.

Click again, say up and between the beginning and end of that line.
- Rather than leaving the first line as drawn, I now get a V shaped line, where the first line disappears and the third point is joined to the second and the first points.
- Is this supposed to work that way? I have to shift + click over the last point to draw another line segment?? If that is the case (which seems to add way more steps than necessary), is there a way to make the new shift click land exactly on the last point. Even zoomed in, the end of the last line and beginning of the new line do not match exactly.

New document, "Reload Last Settings".
- Gives me the last settings, but it also draws the same lines again, which I do not want. How do I just get the last settings in the Dialogue?

Marv

[jsachs]

Currently, Snap only takes effect when you are dragging a control point, not when you create it, so to get a horizontal line you need to click on the endpoint and try to move it a little.

Once a line has been created, clicking adds points to the line. Clicking between two control points inserts the new point between them, Clicking near an endpoint extends the line. If necessary you can then drag the point to where you want it. This lets you specify where in the line you want to add the new point.

To start a new line, Shift-click.

[jsachs]

For the next release, click to add a new control point to a line will snap automatically without having to move the point. This works but can be a little confusing as the new point is not necessarily located exactly where you clicked.

[Marpel]

Jonathan,

Thanks for the replies.

First, and not sure this amounts to anything as I noticed it when I forgot to choose a color for the line, but if no color is chosen (so, white) and two points are clicked and OK'd, the resultant document has a faint double lined dotted line where the line should have been, had a color been chosen. Again, no real consequence, just thought I would mention it.

Anyway, more importantly, if I shift+click to start a line (point 1), say on left side of new blank document, then click horizontally-ish somewhere to the right (point 2), a line is drawn. If I then single click (point 3) up and to the right of vertical from point 2, a second, joining line (as I would expect) is drawn from point 2 and line 1 remains. However, if that third point is clicked anywhere to the left of the second (so well up and to the left so vertically it is between points 1 and 2, regardless of distance vertically), the first line disappears and a V is drawn from point 1 to point 3 then to point 2. Which is what I was trying to explain in my first post. I suspect this is not supposed to happen??

And I did not receive an answer to the "Reload Last Settings" question. I only want line width etc settings, not the same lines redrawn.

Marv

[jsachs]

>Anyway, more importantly, if I shift+click to start a line (point 1), say on left side of new blank document, then click horizontally-ish somewhere to the right (point 2), a line is drawn. If I then single click (point 3) up and to the right of vertical from point 2, a second, joining line (as I would expect) is drawn from point 2 and line 1 remains. However, if that third point is clicked anywhere to the left of the second (so well up and to the left so vertically it is between points 1 and 2, regardless of distance vertically), the first line disappears and a V is drawn from point 1 to point 3 then to point 2. Which is what I was trying to explain in my first post. I suspect this is not supposed to happen??

You might want to read the updated help text for this transformation in the latest version. The algorithm for selecting where in the sequence of control points to insert the new point is designed to let you insert the new point at the beginning, end or in between any two existing control points. It does this by finding the closest line segment between control points (i.e. the perpendicular distance between the new control point and each line segment), and inserts the new control point between the two end of the nearest line segment. However, if the new control point is closer to one of the first or last control point of the line, the new control point is added at the beginning or end of the line. In your example, if you click to the left of the second control point this is closer to the line segment than to the endpoint, so the new point is inserted between the two ends of the line segment.

There is no way to reload the settings without reloading the lines. If you want to save settings without lines you need to delete the lines first. Similarly with Speck removal, Scratch removal, and almost all other transformations.

[Marpel]

Thanks Jonathan for the continued replies.

And not wanting to beat a dead (dying) horse, and I guess it ultimately depends on the intent of the Lines tool.

But I don't understand why clicking, as I previously described, adds a point (and new line segments) between the other two points, when to do same, all I have to do is click along the line between the two points, and drag that point to a new location.

The current method makes it harder, as an example, to make certain lines/shapes, like making a simple box (the third point turns it into an N). Initially, I just assumed one could Shift+click to start a line(s), then just click, click, click various spots and each time, a line would extend to that point from the last point at the end of the line (as I just alluded to, I started out trying to draw a box), and to start a new line, just Shift+click.

And, even if the preceding was not an issue, there seems to be no way to make a box, triangle or any closed shape and connect the last line segment to the first point as clicking on that first point just selects the line, but that last segment does not complete. Perhaps a "something"(alt?)+click allows one to click on the first point and close a shape??

I re-read the Help file and just starting playing with lines/points and eventually got the hang of things as they are, but another thing that adds confusion is, when multiple separate lines, each with segments, are drawn, the input image seems random as to which line/segment shows the double line. Sometimes the previous segment will disappear and other times the double lines show so often in an image with many points, only a couple segments will show the double lines. This makes it a bit difficult to actually determine which points belong to which set of lines. I would think each whole line (with it's segments) would show double lines that shows the "route" of the line. Some lines/segments just show all the points but no connecting double lines. I realize my example is extreme, but still...

And, perhaps as I mentioned above, this tool was not intended to do the things I have suggested, so maybe it is good as is.

Marv

[jsachs]

>> But I don't understand why clicking, as I previously described, adds a point (and new line segments) between the other two points, when to do same, all I have to do is click along the line between the two points, and drag that point to a new location.

Because the perpendicular distance between the new point and the last line segment is less than the distance to the endpoint of the line.

>>The current method makes it harder, as an example, to make certain lines/shapes, like making a simple box (the third point turns it into an N). Initially, I just assumed one could Shift+click to start a line(s), then just click, click, click various spots and each time, a line would extend to that point from the last point at the end of the line (as I just alluded to, I started out trying to draw a box), and to start a new line, just Shift+click.

This method does not let you insert new points in the middle of an existing line or curve.

>>And, even if the preceding was not an issue, there seems to be no way to make a box, triangle or any closed shape and connect the last line segment to the first point as clicking on that first point just selects the line, but that last segment does not complete. Perhaps a "something"(alt?)+click allows one to click on the first point and close a shape??

To make a closed curve, just drag the last point and drop it over the first one.

>>I re-read the Help file and just starting playing with lines/points and eventually got the hang of things as they are, but another thing that adds confusion is, when multiple separate lines, each with segments, are drawn, the input image seems random as to which line/segment shows the double line. Sometimes the previous segment will disappear and other times the double lines show so often in an image with many points, only a couple segments will show the double lines. This makes it a bit difficult to actually determine which points belong to which set of lines. I would think each whole line (with it's segments) would show double lines that shows the "route" of the line. Some lines/segments just show all the points but no connecting double lines. I realize my example is extreme, but still...

I have never seen this, but it sounds like you may be placing one line on top of another.

[Marpel]

Thanks again Jonathan,

I am slowly figuring this whole thing out.

And, to a couple of your points:

I see about dragging and dropping the last point over the first to close a loop.

And, you are correct in your last comment, I was crossing lines, which obviously (now) caused the loss of some of the double lines.

In closing, I think I was looking at this line issue from the (narrow) perspective of drawing straight lines. The tool is obviously suited, perhaps more so, for drafting curved lines (hence the benefit of adding/adjusting points mid-line).

Marv

[jsachs]

The original motivation for the transformation was to add arrows with text boxes to annotate images, in which case the problems you encountered are much less likely. Once you try to draw a box or triangle, the current interface becomes inconvenient.